Can anyone on Gods Green Earth or the entire Multiverse please explain the Dobbsian paradigm known as Libertarian Conservatism?
This political conundrum or f*****d up philosophy of LC as it shall be known is this even possible how can you even be a Libertarian and a Conservative at the same time, this would be the equivalent of mixing Magnesium and Water both perfectly fine if kept separate but very dangerous when mixed together (yes I did check the chemistry and no this is not how it works but I can’t tell people how to blow themselves up before anyone gets pedantic on me).
The political equivalent of lots of bright sparks burning politically brightly but very short lived. Fortunately for politics these two political philosophies are mutually incompatible except in extremely low doses.
If you should combine the two the results would be devastating to the world at large.
So is Dobbsianism a total load of bulls testicles.
Libertarian Conservatism a Dobbsian paradigm?
March 7, 2011 by Kitler
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30 Responses
as OT as I usually am…
Sorry for not joining the conversation here more frequently, but, I’ve been absolutely glued to the blogs that are covering the BATFEckers’ gunwalking scandal.
It really has grown legs in the past couple of days.
The meme warfare is really hotting up, with the ‘FEckers and their pet MSM claiming that it was a legit operation to take down a drugs syndicate that tragically backfired
The whistleblowers are calling BS on that, and the appearace is that it runs up to the whitehouse.
The FEckers’ agents in Mexico that were supposedly theree to work with Mexican cops, couldn’t even speak Spanish!
They couldn’t track anything when they couldn’t even communicate !
and, how the hell were they supposed to get the big guys in a syndicate when all they had were low level traffickers in the US and whichever even lower level scumbag was caught with one of the guns in Mexico?
This looks far more like an exercise in upping the number of guns in crimminal hands allong the border and to hell with anyone who got murdered in the process.
FBI must have known what was going on, when the instant background checks kept coming through for the same people, and no checking up was done.
The Mexicans are well and truly pissed off.
This really is a big plus for CBS – who would have thought of them being the ones to open up the story to the wider audience?
If anyone here can vote in the US, please get onto your congress vermin and push them for full inquiries into this.
The full background story is available via “War on Guns” blog and “Sipsey Street Irregulars” blog.
Enjoy!
Update;
One of the bloggers just got his first ever Infernal Refenue Serfice demand.
They’ve started scratching that itch.
Which is why I don’t do advertising or have a money jar even for expenses. People should be using tor to post and generate lots of false identity’s. People need to have sites offshore as well.
I see Japan got hit by a big one 8.9.
I was watching some vids of the tsunami going through a lowland area, and the vid of the explosion with a big shockwave at the nuke.
People are asking how many nukes there are within range of the New Madrid F
I’m guessing that Oak Ridge is at the far end of the Tennessee?
also, I wonder what the engineering is like on the TVA dams? yet more collectivist deaths waiting to happen?
PS, the blogger doesn’t have advertising, but the timing of the Infernal Refenue Serfice letter is just a bit opportune.
Plausibly deniable, I know, but it does look suspect.
The guy himself has chronic ill health with heart disease, diabetes and the foot problems (necritic bits) from the diabetes. He’s not interested in anonymity.
All the TVA stuff is far enough from the New Madrid zone to be safe my fear is the zone only occupies a small area my suspicion is they have missed stuff further north and south of the zone.
Re Farmerbraun’s posts:
Personally, on the question of what makes a libertarian, I don’t feel the need to add the libertarianism arrow to my quiver. That is not to say that ‘conservative’ covers or explains or describes me absolutely; just that conservative is a more accurate label for the way I vote.
I am — as we all are, really — a liberal, in the long-range political-philosophy sense. Meaning: I don’t think that we should live under theocracy; I believe in due process in courts, and trials directed by production of evidence rather than by demonstrations of innocence (the witch not drowning etc.). I am a child of The Enlightenment and think that government should try to operate on rational principles, while accommodating the irrational in humankind.
I am also, on a more mundane level, sympathetic to social liberalism rather in the manner of Rudolf Guliani (a great conservative).
So I am a conservative with occasional liberal leanings (in so far as they don’t conflict with my core convictions), and in any case I am a classical liberal. As far I’m concerned, libertarianism as such doesn’t come into it: anything that might be identified as libertarian in me is what I consider to be part of being a conservative.
Dr Dave: liked your post on Ozboy’s, too. I like the way you have been so strongly in his corner and stuck up for him. Good on ya, as they say Down Under.
Amanda,
Thanks…but being strongly in Ozboy’s corner was easy. I might say the same of you and crown (kitler) and others. Ozboy is good folk. And good folk take care of our own.
True enough, Dave. Cheers.
Hello everybody. I have nothing to say. That’s why I’ve been on blogs for the past year and a half : )
Farmerbraun, liked your post on Ozboy’s. However, conversation or exchange is like treacle there because of the artisanal, by-hand moderating.
Kitler says that we can chew the fat here at whim, which is a good thing.
That is correct anyone is free to chit chat and be way off topic, only anyone new has to wait my approval.
I consider myself a libertarian with conservative leanings. Conservatives and Libertarians work and play well together and agree on most things right up to the point where the conservative disagrees. There are certain litmus test issues like drug legalization, gay marriage, abortion and immigration. I’m not a pure libertarian on any of these issues except perhaps abortion where I take the extreme libertarian view. That is, what about the rights of the unborn? I’d legalize pot but I bristle at the notion of legalizing cocaine, methamphetamine or heroin. I’m rather ambivalent about gay marriage. I have a BIG problem with both legal and illegal immigration.
Conservatives tend to agree with libertarians about economic issues but the social issues cause them fits. They want to dictate morality. Which is amusing because most of them are such hypocrites. I don’t think there really is a pure libertarian ideology. But Ozboy made an interesting observation that I, too have noticed. The trolls at DT now seem to be more intent on slinging dung at libertarianism rather than climate realism.
Kyttler,
Off Topic – the Latest about Gunwalker
The Bloggers who’ve been investigating the “Gunwalker” scandal of the ATF walking what look like thousands of guns across the border into Mexico, without informing the Mexicans what they were upto,
have finally got it into the mainstream after 2 1/2 months, with CBS giving the main coverage.
Senator Grassley is still getting stonewalled by the ATF and DOJ (this allegedly runs up at least as high in the White House as assistant Attorney General) but with one ATF whistle-blower going public on CBS and several others who’ve handed details to Sen Grassley, This isn’t going to go away easily.
Speculation (tin foil hats at the ready) as to what motivated this is going on at present. Favourite among the theories is that this was to generate so much crime and so many guns traced back to the US that there would have been a pretext for new gun controls.
Like climategate, pesky bloggers have ruined everything 😉
One of the bloggers has been rewarded in the past week by his photo appearing (without his permission…) on the cover of the latest Southern Preposterous Lie Centre, Intelligence[sic] Report.
The other blogger is David Codrea, and visiting his “War on guns” blog is unlikely to land you in the intelligence report (not this years anyway) or with a fatwa.
Glad for the update if this gets any bigger heads will role for sure and people are going to be thrown underneath that bus.
It just got bigger.
Senator Grassley’s judiciary committee has been questioning Janet Naepolitano about this today.
The three major parties in the Mexican Parliament have agreed to set up an working group and are wanting meetings with the US.
The Washington Post has begun covering the story and even refers to the;
“Anti-ATF bloggers sympathetic to the militia movement”, who’ve been pushing the story since December 28th last year.
Said bloggers got tip offs of the Wa-Po coverage from both the WaPo’s editor AND Sen Grassley’s staff.
Faux News is also (at long last) running the story on its news, its only previous coverage was in an op-ed by a very young (twenty odd) author.
The allegations are that this goes all the way up to assistant AG. Who knows who else has signed off on it…
Who’s first in line for the bus?
Hi Kyttler,
Here’s the best summary so far of Gunwalker :
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/askshow
Go to the March 9th episode.
Andrea Shea King interviewing Mike Vanderbeogh and David Codrea (the two bloggers).
There’s an hour and a half of podcast covering the story and the background of trying to get the congress varmints* and media to take this seriously.
_______________________________
*Asses, Elephants, weasels, worms and roche’s# – all creatures great and small, some who creep and some who crawl…
# I can spell cockroach, this one’s different and deeply personal.
The “progs” of whatever variety seem to have achieved a magnetic reversal in the early years of the 20th century.
Political compass malfunctions seem to have been the rule rather than the exception since then.
Allong with the magnetic reversal seems to have come dangerous numbers of highly charged radicals running around the planet, blighting whatever they’ve touched.
I’m spending a lot of time with self described “conservatives” none of whom bears any resemblance at all to the Anne Widicombe – Eggwina Curry brand of UK statist authoritarians.
I guess most are one brand or other of minarchist, although most are distinctly hostile to the idea of gays in the military.
They’re happy to have the freedom to ingest whatever foodstuffs and trans fats you like (unlike neo libs) but not so keen on anyone ingesting either recreational pharmaceuticals or (we’re back to their dislike of gays again)…
Lots of these “conservatives” seem to be very keen on overseas interventionism too.
Are these people confused classical liberals? It’s difficult to tell when no one seems to have a political compass that works.
Heliumlady makes more sense than Dobbski.
When he first stated commenting it was amusing in a naive way but now is only scrolled.
rogercuul well he does want to make me bang my head against a wall his comments have gone so inane and arse backwards that they defy any attempt at logic.
Sigh. Whoever programs Dobbs needs to install the service pack.
http://libertygibbert.wordpress.com/2010/06/06/what-is-libertarianism/
Ozboy the program is clearly broken but I needed to point out Dobbs misuse and lack of understanding of what a Libertarian truly is, I’m more of a Conservative myself with some Libertarian tendencies but not enough to call myself one by any stretch.
I’m thinking that maybe the model could be refined to allow the varieties of human behaviour by having three axes or polarities:
conservative – radical (pace of reform);
libertarian- authoritarian (degree of autonomy);
individual- collective (degree of co-operation); this is to accommodate isolationists like me, who live at the end of no-exit roads and never leave the farm.
Maybe there is too much redundancy in this model.
FB, interesting idea. The Nolan chart is only one way of describing one’s political orientation; there are plenty of others.
On that subject, it intrigues me how over the last few months at the DT, the object of trolls’ bile has slowly shifted from AGW scepticism to Libertarianism. You’ve got a Marxist/Redwar bot (Dobbs), a bitter and twisted self-described “true” Libertarian (budgie, who exploded when I called him a Libertarian wannabee), and various troll-forms in between. I can only surmise they’ve secretly given up on converting the masses to the Church of Climatology, and are pushing ahead with their collectivist agenda regardless. They’ve identified Liberty (regardless of who’s championing it) as their biggest remaining obstacle.
Ozboy,
Welcome back to the blogosphere.
Please Let’s know when the gun rights debate is coming 🙂
You think that might be contentious? I’m picking the debate on organic farming to be a field of poppies when it’s over.
Thanks Ian,
Drop by the Bar & Grill for a pint anytime.
Gun laws in the next month or two I’d say.
Far be it from me to imagine that I could explain anything that Dobbs might or might not think, but I have this sneaking suspicion that I might be seen as a conservative sort of libertarian ( well there must be somebody who thinks that).
I’m thinking though that conservative and libertarian might be on different axes; like, conservative- radical is one polarity; libertarian-authoritarian is another. I’m sure there would be a few other axes.
Another way of looking at it is to say that I might make choices for myself that are typically conservative while conceding that anyone else in their right mind can do pretty much as they please ( within the usual limits).
Well I did come up with Libertarian Fascist Communist in answer to Dobbs although I’m sure it’s possible there is at least one person in the Multiverse who may be one but they will be a rare breed indeed.
I’m sure that there is a touch of Fascism in many Libertarian- Socialist politicians.
Anyone who believes they know best for others is a likely candidate.